Michael and Kelly, (only received Kelly’s message as a copy inside of Michael’)
The way to scale the TLUD barrels is to have more of them. The barrel size is good for a 1 – 2 person team. You cost estimates are would give you 4 barrels (@ 350 TBH each) instead of 1 kiln @ 1500,
TLUD is batch filled. RoCC requires “layered fueling” with care that ties up your workers.
I suggest that Kelly gets his hands dirty with BOTH types and can then help make the decision.
6 barrels x 5 burns per day = 30 barrel batches/day. For about 300 kg/day.
That is good!! IMO. But want is 2 + 1 + 2?
Quench: biochar is perhaps 50% of the VOLUME of the biomass (meaning 50% of the barrel).
Put 2 batches of biochar into one barrel and smother it. Bottom primary air holes are into the dirt. Put a cut-out circular “top” on to the biochar, and then a few shovels of dirt to seal the edges. 30 barrels of production would require 15 barrels
for overnight quenching by smothering. Means more barrels, but they are cheap. A 200 liter barrel is 0.2 m3. So the 15 barrels represent about 3 m3 per day. By two people, that is substantial.
To bringing in water or other structures for quenching would have costs.
OR, because you will want to transport the biochar, have a biochar collection wagon that is airtight on the bottom and can be closed at the top.
How big are the piles of cobs? Need to have sufficient cobs for the number of barrels (or vice versa).
The concentrator tops can be simple. Some projects put too much effort / funds into the concentrators. Use barrel top supported by 2 rods across the top rim. NOT round bar because of rolling. 6 inch
or greater hole with a simple chimney.
No hinges or pivots. But have a handle or hook that can attach to a transport wagon. 2 ft diameter means 5 kilns is 10 ft long, plus ends or “double stacking” in some way.
Enough for tonight.
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:
psanders@ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Website:
https://woodgas.com see Resources page for 2023
“Roadmap for Climate Intervention with Biochar” and 2020 white paper, 2) RoCC kilns, and 3) TLUD stove technology.
From: d.michael.shafer@gmail.com <d.michael.shafer@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 8:55 PM
Cc: Anderson, Paul <psanders@ilstu.edu>
Subject: Re: At last!
|
This message originated from outside of the Illinois State University email system.
|
Gents.
Paul, I am not too cool with the TLUD solution for reasons of scale.
Kelly, I think that the way to overcome the limitations of the TLUUS would be to mount 4 or 6 on a tow-able trailer, each on a hinge to permit easy loading and dumping.
Paul, ideas about quenching welcome.
We can get barrels here, the cost is manageable at 350 per barrel, with labor and parts bringing the grand total to under 1,500 THB (about $45). (Much less with volume).
The piles of cobs are essentially limitless, sometimes as close to each other as a km. A dedicated pair of workers using 6 TLUDs can make 300 to 250 kg per day. (10-12 kg per barrel per burn,
5 burns a day, 2+1+2.)
For mobility, need to be able to move several km.
M
Michael Shafer
On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 12:30 AM
kelly@thaidesignuk.com <kelly@thaidesignuk.com> wrote:
Dear Paul,
It is a pleasure to support in any way that I can. Michael had asked if I could help identify a technological solution suitable for Thailand that would
be mobile and continuous-fed. I am grateful that my recommendation of the RoCC kiln was well regarded, and it is fantastic that you and Michael already have a relationship. I am very appreciative that Michael chose to include me in his outreach to you.In answer to your questions…
My wife and I (and two young boys) recently relocated to Thailand to support her family business, which provides custom jewellery production for designers and brands. Despite visiting the factory many times over the years, we were both unaware of the smoke
issue. After doing some research, I came to the conclusion that biochar production is one of the best possible solutions to the problem, while also providing important ancillary benefits like carbon reduction and water management for agriculture in the dry
season. I was very excited to learn about Warm Heart and I am grateful that the team has been so open to my desire to assist them.
My goals and dreams are very much tied to making an impact related to global sustainability. I had hoped to be involved in renewable energy after
completing my MBA in England, and I pushed hard get myself on that path. When the energy company I worked for started dropping its renewable projects in favour of focusing more on gas extraction, I decided to do something more entrepreneurial with my wife.
That went okay until Covid made our business situation quite uncertain, which led us to decide to move to my hometown of Wichita, KS, so that I could take a job with my old employer, the notorious Koch Industries. I knew very well what I was getting into,
but was resolved to push for sustainability-related opportunities, and gained a bit of a reputation for thinking differently. Probably based on that, one open-minded manager asked for my perspective and ideas related to a very high-value contract negotiation
with a Chinese chemical supplier that chose to no longer abate the N2O they produced as a byproduct. I listed a number of ideas, one of which was to incentivize them to abate by providing a share of carbon credits. Through my network, I suggested ClimeCo,
set-up the initial meetings, pitched the PR value to marketing, and supported all the initial work. Supposedly, there are a few notes in my HR file where it is acknowledged that I came up with the idea and it never would have happened without me, but all
that really matters to me is the 30 million tons of C02e reduction per year that I contributed to. I want to do more, and feel a need/compulsion to.Sustainability Solutions. Valuable Results. | ClimeCo
I have zero “hands on” experience with biochar. I had a factory employee build a TLUD kiln to learn more about it and I bought some bags of biochar
from Warm Heart to use in the garden at our home in Thailand as an experiment…that is as close as I have come, so far. My value and my confidence are probably most tied to my commercial perspective, network, and ability to analyze lots of information to find
creative solutions, but I really am happy to try to help however I can.
Thank you sincerely for welcoming my involvement
-Kelly
From: Anderson, Paul <psanders@ilstu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2024 12:14 AM
To: d.michael.shafer@gmail.com
Subject: RE: At last!
Michael and Kelly,
Michael, an advantage of older age with limitations is that we can now lean more heavily on the younger generation. But we still need to guide and
encourage and have the big picture in mind.
Kelly, I am glad that you are on the team. I ask for more information about you, including goals and dreams. How much “hands on” work have you done
with biochar production and use? Touching and doing builds confidence.You wrote:
Dude, what I really need to know is how long will it take to get going and what costs are involved, especially at your end?
There is almost nothing at MY end. And I am ready to help both of you get going IMMEDIATELY.
If you have dry corn cobs now, let’s resurrect the previous TLUD barrel approach. There might be a couple minor improvements, but to start immediately
with a couple of TLUD barrels would be good. Send photos of the details. Changes could include.
1. cut primary air slots in the bottom with an angle grinder, not with a drill.
2. the structure of the upper part needs to be simple but efficient.
3. How to extinguish the hot char. Several ways to discuss. No water should be needed.
4. Supply of barrels? What is your barrel cost?
5. Labor. Michael is the expert on how many TLUD barrel kilns can be attended by one worker. What is that number?
6. Location / spacing / distribution of the sources of the corn cobs. How much mobility it actually needed?
All the above to be discussed.
Can we use WhatsApp for conversations? I use it a lot. I am in USA Central time zone (we shift to Daylight savings time Sunday 10 March.) Best
times are probably my evening and your morning, to be checked.
About RoCC kilns:
A. Advantages compared to TLUD barrels depends on many aspects, most were listed above.
B. Start with 2-barrel RoCC kiln. Barrels are cheap compared with starting with flat sheets. Less than US$200 per kiln in Kenya. Be sure to
see the Kenya documents at
www.woodgas.com/ken Will use the “H-frame” design found in ……/resources section on biochar production.
C. Flame-cap / RoCC kilns require incremental fuel feeding (vs. batch for TLUD). Therefore, RoCC for the prunings (after the prunings are dry).
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:
psanders@ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434Website:
https://woodgas.com see Resources page for 2023
“Roadmap for Climate Intervention with Biochar” and 2020 white paper, 2) RoCC kilns, and 3) TLUD stove technology.
From:
d.michael.shafer@gmail.com <d.michael.shafer@gmail.com>Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2024 11:56 PM
To: Anderson, Paul <psanders@ilstu.edu>
Subject: Re: At last!
This message originated from outside of the Illinois State University email system.
Learn why this is important
Strength is great! Right now I cannot see well because I have a new, uncorrected lens in my right eye and with the Parkinson’s I am
weak, weak, weak.
I would love to try cobs in the ROcC because of mobility and volume although TLUDs are great and the tech of choice.
How much more to manufacture a 3 ft. kiln?
Sorry that you won’t be able to make the CM/IBI event.
Dude, what I really need to know is how long will it take to get going and what costs are involved, especially at your end?
I will send pics of longan branches, but they are generally pruned from trees, the biggest part cut off for sale and the smaller stuff
and leaves left in big piles. The stuff we work with runs up to 1.5 inches in diameter, but is usually around 1/2″ The leaves make the branches look “bushy” but they should not be a problem.
M
Michael Shafer
On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 12:02 PM Anderson, Paul <psanders@ilstu.edu>
wrote:
Michael, and nice to meet you, Kelly,
See below.
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:
psanders@ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434Website:
https://woodgas.com see Resources page for 2023
“Roadmap for Climate Intervention with Biochar” and 2020 white paper, 2) RoCC kilns, and 3) TLUD stove technology.
From:
d.michael.shafer@gmail.com <d.michael.shafer@gmail.com>Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2024 8:14 PM
To: Anderson, Paul <psanders@ilstu.edu>;
kelly@thaidesignuk.comSubject: Fwd: At last!
This message originated from outside of the Illinois State University email system.
Learn why this is important
Paul,
Apologies for the late response. Just got back from a hospital visit and a 4-day break with my wife (who has been in Boston with a hurting daughter and DC with her 91 yr old mother.)
[PSA>>] Priority for family!!
Let me introduce Kelly, my partner in all this. Kelly is an American engineer who worked for the Alternative Energy Unit at British Gas until they shut it down. Now he is in Chiang Mai running his Indian-Thai
wife’s jewelry design company. His real interest is in upscaling smallholders from trenches to something bigger. He likes the RocC in particular. So do I.[PSA>>] I am delighted that you like the RoCC. Have you made one or seen / used one?
We need a kiln that can be towed over rough ground (in an orchard or corn field) by pickup.
The primary feedstocks will be longan branches, corn stalks and cobs. Ideally about a tonne a day, but small would be ok, too.
[PSA>>] I understand the general issue / situation. A pickup might not be necessary to move the RoCC kilns. Nice if you have that capability.
Is 3 ft feasible? If not 2 will do, even if we have to have multiple kilns
Have you tested the big one 4 ft +?
[PSA>>] 2 ft diameter is 200 liter barrel-size. Super inexpensive and great for learning. 4-ft diameter is getting too big (based on my limited experience). But 3-ft or 1 meter diameter is good,
but requires more fabrication.Mobile means towable by pick up truck. One producer uses longan branches, but I would also like to tow it from corn cob pile to corn cob pile. (Tonnage huge.)
[PSA>>] Please send photos of actual dry longan branches. To see how “branchy” they are.
Corn cobs are great. But I will suggest using TLUD barrels, and you are the most experienced person with that approach. We can discuss some variations.
I am part of the IBI Session in Chiang mai. Please contact Kathleen Draper about coming (and presenting the RocC.)
[PSA>>] Attending would be at my own expense, and that is not in my plans for this year. I will rely on both of you to have the RoCC well represented!!!! And TLUD Barrels.
With plans, can a regular mechanic-welder build one or do I need to take this to a special shop?
[PSA>>] No special skills needed.
I head to the hospital in 6 hours. A-fib abulation of heart. Today that is an almost minor procedure. It will make me stronger!!!!
Paul
Time is not the issue. I understand about hospitals!
M
Michael Shafer
———- Forwarded message ———
From: Anderson, Paul <psanders@ilstu.edu>
Date: Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 1:32 AM
Subject: RE: At last!
To: Michael Shafer – direct <d.michael.shafer@gmail.com>
Michael,
Thanks for waiting for my travel to end. 5123 miles during 3 weeks. Car problems, snow and ice on the roads,
arrive hove at 4 AM on Tuesday. Glad to be back home.
Ready for work with you. I am sure things can be arranged, but some details would help me.
1. Biomass type, location(s), amounts , etc.
2. Who is Kelly and what is the arrangement?
3. My experience with the RoCC kilns is totally at your service. We do need to discuss the options, the main
issue is that larger is much more expensive with less mobility and smaller is more mobile and well suited for places where labor is abundant. 2 ft diameter is too small and 4 ft diameter is getting too large to be mobile without massive cost increases.
4. Define mobile. Transportable how often and how far?
Looking forward to further contact.
Have you heard that there will be an IBI Biochar Academy in Thailand later this year? Much for us to discuss
privately about this.
Paul
From:
d.michael.shafer@gmail.com <d.michael.shafer@gmail.com>Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2024 9:31 PM
To: Anderson, Paul <psanders@ilstu.edu>
Subject: Re: At last!
This message originated from outside of the Illinois State University email system.
Learn why this is important
Let’s do money And the hell with the rest for now.
Kelly is interested in a relatively high volume biochar kiln that is towable but that can be scaled by adding units or building bigger. Can wait 4 days.
The
On Fri, Feb 16, 2024, 4:44 AM Anderson, Paul <psanders@ilstu.edu> wrote:
Michael,
Much fuss about methane, and very little actual measurements. I do not know where or how CH4 would be measured, especially in Thailand.
Let’s proceed with discussion and planning and no spending of money until all are satisfied. Please send some info. You refer to the RoCC kiln,
correct?
I need about 4 days to get home. Now in Sacramento at end of USBI biochar conf. went very well.
I did not see anyone there from Biochar Life or Plant Village. I was hoping to learn more. What info can you sent to me. About my stuff, go
to www.cercs.app
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:
psanders@ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434Website:
https://woodgas.com see Resources page for 2023
“Roadmap for Climate Intervention with Biochar” and 2020 white paper, 2) RoCC kilns, and 3) TLUD stove technology.
From:
d.michael.shafer@gmail.com <d.michael.shafer@gmail.com>Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2024 2:28 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <psanders@ilstu.edu>
Subject: At last!
This message originated from outside of the Illinois State University email system.
Learn why this is important
I think that I finally have a legit buyer and need for your kiln.
I have one question for you, however, How do I measure its CH4 emissions? (This seems to be everybody’s hang up today since for now
Microsoft, the only really big buyer in the business, (1) refuses to count CH4 savings from the prevention of burning and so doesn’t like or buy Artisanal or Arisan Pro (you) char.
What’s next?
M