Ron and all,
A top down burn (lit at the top) of an uncontained pile of biomass is not a legitimate up-draft flow because the air is entering laterally from all sides. Furthermore, the constrained sides on a TLUD (Top Lit UpDraft) pyrolyzer provides a clear separation of the primary air from the secondary air, which are not separated in the top down burn..
Please do NOT equate the name and technology of TLUD with “top-down burn”. The top-down burn is distinctive and should be recognized for what it is, not implying that it has the features of something else that is distinctive in several different ways.
Please note that the TLUD stoves do NOT require metal on their side walls. Use of bricks as in Kevin’s brick stove (especially if the gaps are mudded to seal the air leaks) is a low-cost TLUD stove and is not the same as a top-down burn that refers to the open piles of biomass.
Ignition at the top of the biomass is not sufficient to earn the name TLUD. And only properly designed and fabricated TLUD attain the Tier 4 and Tier 5 levels of quality.
Also, the Subject line of this thread of messages is now misleading. Neither the TLUD nor the Top-Down methods are “Flame-Cap” technology. Especially readers of this Biochar Discussion Group should be aware of the differences.
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders@ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Website: woodgas.com see Resources page for 2023 “Roadmap for Climate Intervention with Biochar” and 2020 white paper, 2) RoCC kilns, and 3) TLUD stove technology.
>>> —–Original Message—–
>>> From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron
>>> Larson via groups.io
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 9:02 PM
>>> To: Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io>; dan weinshenker
>>> <danweinshenker@gmail.com>; Kevin McLean <kevin@sun24.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Biochar] Hack to Snuff Pit Flame-Cap Burn
>>>
>>> This message originated from outside of the Illinois State University email
>>> system. Learn why this is
>>> important<help.illinoisstate.edu/technology/page-88179827.html>
>>>
>>> Dan and list:
>>>
>>> I’ve been following Kevin’s reports on top-down piles, which are quite
>>> smoke free. Extinguishment is generally done by him scattering the embers –
>>> since water is not usually available as in this use of cardboard (wetting and
>>> with dirt), apparently.
>>>
>>> I suggest a need for more discussion on these competing approaches –
>>> both of which have the merit of low cost. Has anyone compared them or
>>> modeled them??
>>>
>>> In talking with Kevin, I have suggested that his top-down burn may have a
>>> lot of the favorable characteristics of TLUDs – as both use top-lighting. The
>>> pyrolysis front seems to be moving downward very similarly – suggesting the
>>> outer metal can seen with all TLUDs may not be mandated.
>>>
>>> Could this non-use of metal in top-lit piles have applicability in the world of
>>> char-making stoves (where low cost is critical)?
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>> > On Feb 22, 2024, at 5:33 PM, dan weinshenker
>>> <danweinshenker@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Yes, pile/pit behind is smoldering, not burning as it should. Thinking they
>>> were trying to burn shells or nuts or husks, something like wood chips, that
>>> don’t burn well stacked in a pile. Language was foreign to me.
>>> >> On Feb 22, 2024, at 5:13 PM, Ronal Larson <rongretlarson@comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dan:
>>> >>
>>> >> Maybe this is a good “hack”, but there sure seems to be an inappropriate
>>> release of smoke going on.
>>> >>
>>> >> Ron
>>> >>
>>> >>> On Feb 21, 2024, at 4:09 PM, dan weinshenker
>>> <danweinshenker@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Wet cardboard. Cover with dirt or sand.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ( Screenshots of a video that appeared in my Facebook feed. )
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
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