RE: Brick TLUD Cookstove Testing

To all in the core conversation about brick TLUD stoves (plus trying to send to whatever exists of the “stove listserv” ) (to ME, only send direct because I do not receive those “stove list” messages if any are being sent),

A couple of decades ago (and for a long time, and still true), a major issue about Rocket stoves was low-density (insulating) bricks. What is important today regarding any brick stove (including Kevin’s) is that high-mass stoves suck
up much heat. And especially at the edges inside the fuel chamber the temperature of pyrolysis will be somewhat lower than in the center.

Such unproductive capture (stealing) of heat into the stove body is the reason why much of stove testing has “cold start” and “hot start” stages. But note:

1. TLUD stoves (metal inside) work with cold start. The little heat in relatively thin metal is (IMO) of little consequence. As in the Fabstove and the Champion stoves, the fuel chambers are exchanged, so it is never intended to be
hot when reloading and re-igniting.

2. Kevin’s brick stove is high mass but is not reloaded. Instead, the pot is moved to a second TLUD brick-fire (which is the correct thing to do IMO). There is no fun (actually there can be discomfort) to try to reload a brick TLUD
right after ending of a first run (and need to remove the charcoal and we do not want any accidental ignition of the new fuel down deep inside the TLUD.) And certainly do not put extinguishing water down into the brick TLUD.

The long-standing quest for “a stove for less than US$10” (BUT CLEAN BURNING) has not been successful. Kevin’s stove is cleanER burning, but not at the high standard expected by the “authorities”. But it has a chance to be accepted
and used (better than those at fail to be used and too expensive for the poorest people). That USE-FACTOR is important. And Kevin has the “put stones at bottom of 3-stone fire” innovation that also has users but not the endorsement of the “stove authorities”
who are silent (uninterested??) in such innovations.

May the discussion and experimentation continue !!!

Paul

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD

Email: psanders@ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Website: https://woodgas.com see Resources page for 2023
“Roadmap for Climate Intervention with Biochar” and 2020 white paper, 2) RoCC kilns, and 3) TLUD stove technology.

From: Bill Knauss <wmknauss@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2023 1:37 AM

To: Ronal Larson <rongretlarson@comcast.net>

Cc: Kirk Harris <gkharris316@comcast.net>; dan weinshenker <danweinshenker@gmail.com>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@ilstu.edu>; Paul E Belanger <pebelanger@glassdesignresources.com>; Norman Baker <ntbakerphd@gmail.com>; Joshua Guinto <jed.building.bridges@gmail.com>;
Andrew Heggie <aj.heggie@gmail.com>; Kevin McLean <kevin@sun24.org>

Subject: Re: Brick TLUD Cookstove Testing

This message originated from outside of the Illinois State University email system.

Learn why this is important

Ron,

I just finished rereading your email thread and thought it best to tell the rest of the gang what I told you yesterday. I have finished testing the brick TLUD that I had made as best as I could to conform with Kevin’s animated instructional
video for making the brick TLUD. It only cost $10 for the 1.5″ x 8″ x 16″ cement blocks I used so I was able to keep the cost down even though we couldn’t get the free brick.

The only fuel I could locate that was couser than the pecan shells was very wet fresh wood chips. I spent about 4 hours drying the wood chips after I cobbled together a barrel dryer that I ran exhausted flue gasses through. I used a heavy
duty shop vacuum to draw the gasses through the barrel and about 30 lbs of pecan shells to do the job.

The test was a complete flop because the chips would not support a flame with the natural draft. Just smoke and lots of that. I then tried pyrolyzing the chips in the fan assisted TLUD I had used to dry the chips and they seemed to work
well enough that way. I was unable to find any dry feedstock similar to what Kevin had used so that ended the testing prematurely and I would like to apologize for that.

Nevertheless, I have just read all of this thread for the first time and can see that Joshua’s incredibly precision work and testing on his brick TLUD yielded some of the highest numbers I have seen reported for biochar yield in a TLUD
of any description. Joshua didn’t report on a boiling test but but it would seem that almost all the energy in the feedstock, that wasn’t sucked up by the brick, or not combusted because it remained as biochar, would be available for boiling water as best
it could be transferred into the water pot.

So Joshua’s testing has actually produced more information about brick TLUDS than I would have ever been capable of producing, even with years of work. Thank you Joshua.

All this work by Joshua may not be all that helpful to Kevin, but as Kevin pointed out “the cooks loved the stove”.

With this kind of enthusiasm the cooks will no doubt continue using the stove regardless of whether they get paid for any biochar they can make or not. I have personally seen in excess of 30 tons of pecan shells simply disappear from where
it was stored because someone discovered a simpler way to heat their homes with a very cheap and easy to use devise that functioned not all that different from Kevin’s brick TLUD, but I never heard of anyone making any biochar with the devise even though I
had witnessed that it was possible to make some low grade biochar with it.

So if the objective is to get a lot of biochar by paying cooks to make it, Joshua has demonstrated that a lot of high quality biochar can be made in a high quality TLUD but then the issue becomes a matter of whether the high quality carbon
removal credits you could generate would be sufficient to buy high quality TLUDS with enough left over to pay the cooks something for making the biochar.

Bill Knauss

On Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 10:13 PM Ronal Larson <rongretlarson@comcast.net> wrote:

Kirk, Dan, Paul(s), Norm, Joshua, Andrew; cc Kevin and Bill

Bill has an hour ago agreed to break into his planned schedule for tomorrow to do a real stove test for Kevin – with the design information below from Kevin. (Believe you all or mostly have seen)

This is to hope you can do the same. I can help with the cost of bricks (but Bill found some free (friend overhearing conversation) and same may be true near you – and finding some near by can be a time-saver. 36 needed..

Several reasons for urgency:

– Kevin and I will be talking on Friday with two stove authors from IEA. Kevin has (two-day old) good results from 4 women users (I think in Uganda – maybe Kenya), maybe another 6 can also report, but still zero technical information
(just need the times and weights for fuel in, char out, and water boiled away.) Hoping for usual 5 liter WBT.

– Kevin has won the right/obligation to give a 5 minute upcoming talk on the brick stove – and technical numbers from more than one tester would be an important part of talk. Especially different fuels (and almost every fuel seems to
be working).

– Kevin is planning to go to the full biochar list very soon describing his above 2 upcoming talks) and asking if anyone knows of any prior TLUD stoves with bricks. We know of none, but he can get a much better response from other biochar
and stove list members if it is known that friends have done the simple turnaround in a day or two. And that all (?) are getting high quality test results (in a controllable TLUD stove costing only a few bucks in Africa).

Can anyone suggest others likely to be able to drop everything to help this TLUD cause? Next week still can be helpful, but something in next two days could make a huge difference at COP28.

To repeat why this is so important – In sub-Sahara Africa (SSA) we know this is (finally) an acceptable price and the only reporting users are unanimously giving the best possible early returns. And we have a chance to get this into a
prominent venue ar COP28 – only a few weeks away. Friday could be our only chance to say this to two at IEA who perhaps want to hear it (we think).

Ron

720-351-1828

Begin forwarded message:

From:
K McLean <kmclean56@gmail.com>

Subject: Brick TLUD Cookstove Testing

Date:
October 31, 2023 at 9:25:52 PM MDT

To:
Bill Knauss <wmknauss@gmail.com>, Ronal Larson <rongretlarson@comcast.net>

Hi Bill,

It was great talking with you. Thank you so much for testing this stove. It’s late here but I wanted to get this email out.

Here is a
summary of the brick TLUD. Attached is an animated video that may be helpful.

Thanks,

Kevin

Animated
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